Civil insolence 22 Jan 2010 I am vaguely amused and slightly disgusted that the issue over which I left Science Blogs is still going. Henry Gee writes of it at the recent ScienceOnline2010 meet. I was mentioned in despatches, so I replied thus: The reason I left Science Blogs was in very large part because of the same people and attitudes you describe here. That is also the reason (mostly) why that statement appears on my blog. I was raised by my pappy to be civil to others, to give them a hearing, and to reason with them so long as that was a reasonable thing to do (i.e., so long as they behaved reasonably). But it seemed that was, I was told, a tool of the patriarchy designed to keep women in subjugation, or something. I had thought of myself as a feminist; I was being told I wasn’t even a humanist. I was just an oppressor, a d00d. So, I left them to it. I hope that they are having an excellent time. Now of course there are some exaggerations in that comment. 1. My dad died when I was 11, and I was raised by science fiction writers thereafter. 2. I was in fact told that I couldn’t be a feminist and that calling oneself a humanist (one who tries to treat all people equally) was just an act of oppression. 3. I am also motivated by the trolls (insert random Swedish name here). But I like Henry’s citation of the comment policy here (see sidebar) and expect the royalty cheque momentarily. Late note: Primate Diaries also weighs in. Humor
General Science On ID and the public awareness of evolution 20 Apr 2008 Imagine a scientific theory that very few people know or understand. Let’s call it “valency theory“. Now suppose someone objects to valency theory because it undercuts their view of a particular religious doctrine, such as transubstantiation. So they gather money from rich members of their faith community and start a… Read More
Education *Real* doctor?! 14 Apr 2010 Real doctor!? You just keep on thinking that mate. I took the equivalent of 11 years to get my doctorate… Yeah, I know you can prescribe drugs! But can you understand Kant? Read More
I heard that at scio10, Greg Laden tried to sit down at Isis’s table in the canteen, but then Isis got up and said she wasn’t hungry anymore — right, guys? — and then she and her friends got up and left, and then Comrade PhysioProf called Greg a pipsqueak and knocked over his carton of milk. But Greg just sat at that table and ate his sandwich. I don’t know if this is accurate, but it seems true.
Well, “true” is a funny word. As a philosopher, I expect you know this. I was just running with what I thought was a silly metaphor, but then I read the comment I linked below. And as is undeniable, Greg still blogs at ScienceBlogs, eating his sandwich, as it were.
Perhaps. I looked it up. The online dictionary said “Aus, NZ” so I presumed. Do you know what time it is in eastern North America? I have to work tomorrow. Gawd, I hate insomnia.
@HP “Stoushie” was fairly common in Scotland, may still be. Having a stoushie, a right stoushie and so forth. I suspect the colonials shortened the word to Stoush after or during their transportation.
On the main topic of the thread, it sounds like Henry got a bit upset. I think it’s interesting that we get along so much better on Nature Network (where you would be most welcome to blog, John, I’m sure) – oddly the one big argument we did have was started in our private back channel.
Civility is a difficult standard–difficult to even talk about, because doing so implies an opposite, the Uncivil, the very mention of which breaches the standard as an ad hom; like the oxymoronic bumper sticker “Mean People Suck.” There are apparently certain ubermenschen on the interweb who have no congenital need to be treated with respect, and perhaps this lack blinds them to the fact that the rest of us do, even from cyber strangers. We will all fail at this, just as we fail with the people in our real lives, but that doesn’t mean there should be no ideal to try to live up to. I think if we ask what sort of speech it is that is excluded from civil conversation (of the type John describes, rather than, say, the kind employed by Jane Austen characters) I think we’ll end up with a pretty inconsequential corpus of expression. Anything that needs to be said can be said compassionately, if the speaker so wishes (as couples therapists have known for decades). Has anyone offered a specific sense in which not pissing on the carpet “excludes voices”? It seems unimaginative to me. Greg Laden wants to equate “don’t say it that way” with “shut up” which seem to me a failure of intellection I wouldn’t expect from a scholar, even an “independent” one. (It’s worth noting that Laden has a comments policy himself, which excludes “trolls” who make comments “that are insulting to me, to other commenters on this site, or to someone else I care about.” Maybe there’s something to this civility thing after all?)
My parents did not die and I was still raised by science fiction writers. It was my father’s fault; he brought the books home and left me alone to read to read anything I liked. Speaking of fault, thanks to you (yes, we’re all pointing our fingers at you, Wilkins) I stayed up too late last night reading all the he said/she said mishegas about civility last night. Good stuff. The web is a huge and wonderful place. If I want to write frackety frack frack frack, there are places to do so. Not my style, that’s one of the reasons to hang out at Evolving Thoughts, but JW gets to rearrange the furniture in his house any way he wants.
I love Yiddish, and seriously wish I had it as part of my cultural inheritance so I could unselfconsciously use terms like “mishegas”. Mind the new coffee tables.
The “dancing master” (used in the old sense of the word) who taught us every afternoon at the Old Vic was a 78 year old legendary figure named Rudi Shelley. He had started his working life as a ballet dancer in 1930’s Berlin. He was both Jewish and Gay so his career in Germany was cut short. But he had worked with just about everyone from the 1930’s onwards (he was something of a terrible name- dropper) One of the most amazing individuals I have met. I learnt a lot in his classes which were very unusual. What is most usefull was his voice the distinctive thick German Yiddish pattern of speech is so memorable it is easy to remember his words and they are well worth remembering. He was still teaching in his 90’s
Dude, you are such a mensch, she said unselfconciously. Hey, New York/Valley Girl Jew -how should I talk?
Since I still *am* at scienceblogs, and had heard none of this, and can’t make heaad or tail of it from your refs: what is the problem?